關於 small stage design ideas ，我們在網路上蒐集到這些相關的討論、資訊與評價

「地獄空」攝影集即將在八月中元節前出版，由知名設計師與攝影家黃子欽設計，內附在下二位高徒精美繪製符咒、心經版畫書籤、愣嚴咒牌、尊勝咒語...等，感恩十方大德助印，希望疫情退散，平安喜樂，後記如下：

野放台灣五十餘年，貪狼獨坐，三方四正殺破狼格局，少年多舛，白手起家，隨展覽雲遊四海，如閒雲野鶴常持各類底片機流連廢墟、山川、宮廟忘返，遂設幻影堂自詡堂主，一日三省「凡所有相皆是虛妄」，常宅於暗房沖片放大通宵、鍾情黑白世界之單純，彩色照片俗世繽紛花俏做作甜美甚至比現實更現實故少拍也。知天命之年有餘，了悟人生一瞬、眨眼即逝，雖非仙人，亦無道骨，初聞離垢地生清淨心，但離華嚴「不動地」尚遠，待修持也。
2017年盛暑拍畢《巨神連線》，心律不整差點心肌梗塞向閻羅王報到，意識死神隨伺在側，人生苦短，如何了生脫死、盡斷煩惱、無所罣礙、遠離顛倒……總不得解，蒙釋迦摩尼佛開示飆淚三晝夜，聞佛法數載始知自我渺如塵埃，甚感慚愧。閒暇乃參訪名寺古剎，禮敬焚香佛陀菩薩羅漢諸神天仙王爺媽娘，台灣宮廟千奇百怪、宗派錯綜複雜（佛教、道教、一貫道、天主教、基督教、齋教、回教＆大同教、儒教鑾堂、天帝教＆天德教、慈惠堂＆勝安宮、軒轅教、道院、理教、萬國道德會、會靈山……）、神棍橫行（依人不依法、偶像崇拜、斂財、邪淫），因歷史變遷、社會動盪、政治鬥爭、意識形態等因素導致佛道混雜，但地獄造景稀少，後專注拍攝各殿閻王、判官、陰司、獄卒、七爺、八爺乃至一切罪人，各寺造景巧妙、耐人尋味，意境乖張溢於言表，造型扭曲非常人所能塑也，然匠心獨運、自成一格，專研西方藝術數十載方知真誠樸拙最美，絲毫不輸喬托（Giotto di Bondone，1267～1337）乃至米開朗基羅（Michelangelo Di lodovico Buonarroti Simoni 1475 ~ 1564）矣。

創立於1986年的石門金剛宮風景優美可眺望北濱，雖主祀四面佛，儒釋道眾神尊也不含糊，可過七星橋解厄、繞行五百黝黑羅漢敲鑼印心、跪拜亞洲最大臥佛涅槃像，安太歲自不在話下，甲子太歲爺雙眼長出手掌印象甚深，1994年經閻羅王指示廟公建造一條肚內設極樂世界及陰曹地府之神龍，行走暗黑通道觸動感應機關，只見面容猙獰受刑者呼天搶地喊冤、身邊盡是血肉糢糊殘肢敗屍腦漿塗地，十殿閻羅各司其職、威儀攝人。新北市林口區青嶺湖北文紫祥宮包公廟則以壁面彩塑地獄浮雕獨步全台，粉嫩色彩搭配卡漫風格，尤為造型簡直恐怖到可愛透頂，該廟主祀森羅殿閻羅天子包拯（包青天），陽世冤屈者可至此參拜祭解，求破懸案者眾，逢中元普渡皆以紙紮船渡亡魂至彼岸，全台唯一閻羅天子巨像籌備中，四周環繞墓地，適合修不淨觀也。台灣首尊彰化八卦山大佛旁南天宮（1971）地府則是首座電動地府，規模精小但驚嚇度破表，略顯破敗但五光十色仍蠻凶悍，出自已故台南大道長金登富之作，而電動神明起始可追溯至1960年代北港朝天宮。倒是嘉義水上鄉白人牙膏觀光工廠「戴相府」、「將軍府」設置十殿地府出乎意料之外，乾淨亮麗、ㄧ殿ㄧ間、簡單樸實。由高雄蓮潭龍虎塔龍口入內可見全臺唯一交趾陶地獄牆面，尊尊栩栩如生，續入龍身乃進聞聲救苦白衣觀音大士三十三化身浮雕隧道，造型設色甚為古錐。高雄大岡山超峰寺入口處「西方三聖蓮池海會」（阿彌陀佛、觀世音菩薩、大勢至菩薩巨像）旁設靜態十殿閻羅（1970年代初），雖略為陳舊然韻味猶存，續往上行可抵「證菩提道－釋迦如來應化事迹」雕塑園區，一攬世尊畢生精華。如來年邁時，琉璃國王為報長期被釋迦族輕蔑之傲慢心，世尊雖三次單獨伽跌坐 阻擋大軍進攻之路，但因緣果報無法逆轉，昔日婢女所生王子瞋恨無以復加，還是滅了祖國。自持神通第一目犍連不忍無辜百姓慘遭屠殺，遂以缽盛救度五百族人，最終卻化為血水，佛言神通廣大仍不敵千百劫業力，因緣果報屢試不爽。其母死後墜入餓鬼道飢餓難耐，目犍連遂展神通救渡，但所食尚未入口皆化為赤火，佛陀囑咐農曆七月十五日僧眾解安居自恣日，於盆中設甘露美食供養十方僧眾，因此超度亡母。後世「盂蘭盆法會」乃至「水懺法會」、「瑜珈焰口法會 」皆為消業障、斷塵垢之超渡儀軌，既渡亡魂也自懺悔。

台南麻豆代天府規模宏大、造型豔麗，不但可遊十八層地獄尚可逛天堂（1979年興建，1983年開放)，燈光絢爛、聲響駭人，獨自漫步宛如觀落陰、地獄走一回。先過「心頭山」、入「清心池」、進「陰陽界」、抵「交簿廳」、達「鬼門關」、遊「補經所」、探「枉死城」、行「奈何橋」，至ㄧ殿泰廣王照「孽鏡台」現造惡原形，睹抱柱、火床等小地獄。二殿楚江王開「陰查簿 」判案定奪，觀糞尿泥、餓鬼、舞池、寒冰、膿血、鞭韃、舌犁、劍葉、戟腹拋接、砧截……等小地獄。三殿宋帝王刑罰為倒吊、銅鐵刮臉、挖眼、搗樁、倒烤、吸血、穿肋、抽筋、蛆蛀等小地獄……兼遊「四生（胎、卵、濕、化）回魂府」。四殿五官王掌管腰斬、拔舌、沸湯、刺嘴、剝皮、箭樹、車崩、射眼……等十六小地獄。隨五殿森羅王豋「望鄉臺」回眸親人最終眼後觀擊膝、誅心、刀山、飛刀火石……小地獄。六殿卞城王別稱「大叫喚大地獄」，轄火牛、虎啖、噬腎、鉗嘴含鍼、釘喉、磨摧、砍頭……等小地獄。七殿泰山王為「熱惱大地獄」，窺烙手指、抽腸、頂石蹲身、油釜滾烹、割舌穿腮……等十六小地獄。八殿都市王掌管「大熱惱大地獄」兼火狗、鐵汁、鐵蛇、鋸劈斷肢、釘板、灸脊、鐵丸、磅秤……等小地獄。九殿平等王直轄十八層「阿鼻大地獄」，直透地心、內中陰森、不見五指、滿溢地漿，皆為極犯，另轄紫赤毒蛇鑽孔、夾頂、鐵鴉、針雨、蜂蠍……等小地獄。至十殿輪轉王上「觀生臺」、「轉劫所八司」（查驗司 、稽善司 、考過司 、恩怨司 、壽命司 、支配司、掌劫司 、授生司）後至「孟婆亭」飲「醧忘湯」忘盡前塵往事，依前世功德過金、銀、玉、石、木、竹六種橋樑至「轉輪臺（紫河車）」入六道輪迴轉生投胎。據《十八泥犁經》記載，人過世後七七四十九天為「中陰生」，經閻羅王審判善惡業力判定去留或懲罰百千萬劫，犯五逆重罪則墮入「無間地獄（阿鼻地獄）」永劫不復。地藏王乃幽冥教主，統轄十殿閻羅，逢三曹普渡便在各殿設「講道所」超度尚存善根之鬼魂。

人類居於五趣（阿修羅、人、傍生、餓鬼、地獄）雜居地五濁惡世之堪忍世界，犯十惡業（殺生、偷盜、邪淫、妄語、兩舌、惡口、綺語、貪慾、嗔恚、愚痴）者必墮三趣惡道。如何出「三界」（欲界、色界、無色界）二十八天？凡人無此意識，別說能破「十二因緣」（無明、行、識、名色、六入、觸、受、愛、取、有、生、老死）還滅門，更別想斷除「四聖諦」（苦、集、滅、道）集地八十一品見惑與八十八使思惑（五利使-身見、邊見、邪見、見取見、戒禁取見、五鈍使-貪、瞋、癡、慢、疑），了悟「五蘊」（色、受、想、行、識）本空、「十二入」（眼、耳、鼻、舌、意、色、聲、香、味、觸、法）空、「十八界」空，破俱生我執與分別我執、法執甚至空執，生十一處「善心所」（信、精進、慚、愧、無貪、無瞋、無痴、輕安、不放逸、行捨、不害），降二十六處「惡心所」（貪、瞋、癡、慢、疑、惡見、忿、恨、覆、惱、嫉、慳、誑、諂、害、憍、無慚、無愧、掉舉、惛沉、不信、懈怠、放逸、失念、散亂、不正知），須知善根斷盡則陷永劫輪迴、無垠轉世之苦。

地獄可能空滅嗎？若地獄空乏人間多鬼怪，地獄淨空世間何嘗非淨土？若能證空性何處現地獄？

地獄曠古來便廣泛流傳各部族間，老死生滅為自然運行之基礎、宇宙意識之核心，然今文明昌盛如咱城邦並非慾望消弭之所，惡性所及實無可根除，礙於憲法國家法律社會軍隊企業公司學校家庭團體之層層束縛不亞於十八層，乃遁於壓抑、束己情懷，暗埋心底、日久貪嗔痴慢疑怨噌會疊穢。而六塵未熄，心多妄念，妖魔鬼怪魑魅魍魎孤魂閃靈出沒於荒郊乃至人間，會靈於曠野密林以增性靈乃出世高人修煉之舉，我等凡人擅闖宛如迪士尼般之人造地獄，三魂七魄尚不足以出竅，驚邪恐怖淒厲猙獰倒滿足了自以為是的慚愧，豈不謬哉？

病毒肆虐年半有餘，全球確診者逼近一億八千萬，枉死者近四百萬，堪比戰爭規模，望眾生發慈悲心、令往生者安息、善待其他物種、平等有情眾生。地獄本空，唯妄念生起一切羨慕嫉妒恨而地獄現前。盡以此書作為世界新冷戰獨裁者、超限戰者、暗網駭客、陰險狡猾冷嘲熱諷落井下石者之良知備忘錄矣。

姚瑞中寫於2021年端午節

Postscript

I have been living recklessly in Taiwan for more than fifty years. According to Zi Wei Dou Shu (Purple Star Astrology), Tan Lang is the sole star in my house of Self. This star, which represents xxx, forms an equilateral triangle with that star Qi Sha and Po Jun on the square chart and constitutes a Sha Po Lang pattern. The pattern indicates a kind of turbulence and change, a life of wandering with ups and downs and it tells a lot about my life. After my ill-fated youth, I started from scratch and traveled around the world with exhibitions that I participated. Like a flaneur, I wandered around ruins, nature, and temples with every type of film camera obliviously. Thus, I founded the Hall of Illusion and claimed to be the master of the hall. Several times a day, I pondered a quote from the Diamond Sutra, “Everything with form is unreal.” In addition, I usually stayed in the darkroom developing film and enlarging those negatives overnight. However, I treasured the simplicity of the black and white world. The earthly, gaudy, garish, phony and pleasing qualities within colored photos make the images even more realistic than the real world. It is not my cup of tea, so I seldom took colored photos. In Confucian thought, the age of fifty marks the stage knowing the mandate of Heaven. I am now at my fifties and realize how ephemeral human life is. However, I am not an immortal, nor having sagelike characteristics. I just learned that the stage of stainless (the second bhūmi) and develop a pure mind that is free from doubt and defilement. However, I’m still far from the immovable state and need to practice.

In the summer of 2017, after filming the work Incarnation, I experienced a severe heart rhythm problem which almost triggered myocardial infarction and could have killed me. Consequently, I realized that death was waiting for me and the life is too short to figure out how I can liberate myself from the cycle of Birth and Death. I couldn’t comprehend how to be free from all afflictions and worries and how to avoid delusive ideas. I wept for three days and nights after being enlightened by Shakyamuni Buddha. Up to the moment, I felt ashamed that I failed to realize that the self is as insignificant as dust after these years learning and practicing Buddhism. Since then, I have visited famous temples and monasteries in my spare time, worshiping Buddha, Bodhisattvas, arhats, and all the deities and immortals. Taiwan’s temples are myriad with a enormous number of sects, including Buddhism, Taoism, Yiguandao, Catholicism, Christianity, Chinese religions of fasting, Islam& Baháʼí Faith, Confucianism, Tiandiism& Tian-De Teachings, Xiwangmu cult, Yellow Emperor Sect, Precosmic Salvationism, Liism, World Wide Ethical Society, séance cult, etc. Some people even claim that they can mediate communication between the deities or spirits of the dead with human beings, having their believer rely on themselves instead of the orthodox dharma or dogma and pay excessive respect and admiration for the mediums or objects, accumulating wealth through such an unfair means or even harassing their believer sexually. Due to Taiwan’s historical changes, social turbulence, political struggles, and ideological issues, Buddhism and Taoism are somehow mixed. However, there are few emphases on the concept of the hell. As I took photographs of Yama of each court, judges, wardens of the underworld, jailers, General Fan and Hsieh (the ghost escorts) and all sinners, I found few temples cleverly created hellish scenes that are intriguing, exaggerating, and extraordinary. However, the creations are unparalleled unique. I have been studying Western arts for decades and then I came to realize that simplicity makes the most beautiful works of art. These hellish scenes can even compete with works of Giotto di Bondone (1267-1337) and Michelangelo Di lodovico Buonarroti Simoni (1475-1564).

Jingang Temple Shimen District, founded in 1986, overlooks the beautiful North shore. Although the temple is mainly dedicated to Phra Phrom (the Thai representation of Mahabrahma), spirits of Confucianism, Buddhism, and Taoism can also be founded in the temple. The worshipper can go cross the Seven Star bridge to relieve bad luck, walk along the five hundred arhat statues and knock on the gong to affirm one’s Buddha nature. Furthermore, the worshipper can also prostrate themself before Asia’s largest statue of Buddha in Nirvana (the Reclining Buddha statue) and pacify the Taoist Tai Sui deity of the year. I was impressed by the Jia-Zi Tai Sui General that a pair of palms grow out of his eyes. In 1994, the biō-kong (the person taking charge of the temporal affairs of a temple) received a divine inspiration from Yama (the King of Hell) that he had to build a sacred hall in the shape of a divine dragon, with the interior designed according to the World of Ultimate Bliss and the Underworld. When the visitor walks in the dark hallway, they will see the tortured people (dioramas, of course) scrunching their faces and crying bitterly and loudly in excessive grief as the visitor triggers the mechanism. One will even find them in the midst of flesh, body liquid and blood, mutilated limbs, and rotten corpses. While each of the ten Yamas are focusing on their own duties, showing their sacred dignity that collect visitors’ attention. The Baogong Temple in Linkou District, New Taipei City exclusively features colorful depiction of hellish scenes in relief in Taiwan. With its pastel shades and cartoon-like style, the relief is both grotesque and adorable at the same time. This temple is dedicated to Bao Zhen (also known as Justice Bao) representing the incarnation of Yama. Living people who have been treated unjustly can come worshipping Bao Gong and receive exorcism. Therefore, many people come here for seeking to solve unsolved cases. In Zhongyuan Festival (the ghost festival), the temple will burn the Zhizha (paper craft) boat to ferry the ghosts to the other shore, which is the shore of enlightenment. The only giant statue of Yama in Taiwan is still in the making. The temple is surrounded by a cemetery, suitable for meditating on the loathsomeness and impurity. Nantian Temple (1971), located next to the Eight Trigram Mountains Buddha in Changhua, features the first animatronic underworld. Despite the small size, the animatronic underworld is intensely shocking. Though it’s slightly worn, the colorful dioramas are still brutally ferocious. The creator was the late venerable Dao Zhang (Taoist priest) Jing Deng-fu while the origin of animatronic deities can be traced back to the 1960s Beigang Chaotian Temple. On the contrary, the Whiteman Toothpaste Tourism Factory in Shuishang Township, Chiayi, features ten Yamas with individual booth. The place is unexpectedly clean and polished yet keeps a simple and modest tone. Then, the Dragon Pagoda of the Dragon and Tiger Pagodas at Lotus Lake in Zuoying, Kaohsiung, holds the only relief of hellish scenes made of Kochin ceramic. All the figures are vivid and life-like. If one goes further into the pagoda, they will see a relief tunnel of the thirty-three incarnations of the white-robed form of Guanyin (Avalokiteśvara) on a white lotus, with a lovely and interesting design. Another Hall of Yama is built in the 1970s next to the entrance of Dagangshan Chaofeng Temple, located in the Alian District of Kaohsiung. Visitors will also see three statues of the Three Holy Ones of the Western Pureland (Amitābha, Avalokiteśvara, Mahāsthāmaprāpta) which assemble at a lotus pond. Although the hellish scene looks somewhat antiquated, you may still find its previous charm. If one goes further, they will reach the sculptural garden of “Attaining the Bodhi Way: the Incarnation of Sakyamuni Buddha,” where the visitor can see the essence of Bhagavato’s (meaning the Blessed one, one of the common epithets for Buddha) life. When Tathāgata (another epithet for Buddha) was old, the king of Kosala wanted to avenge the arrogance of the tribe of Shakyas who had long despised him, regarding him as a son of a maiden. Although Buddha has sat in lotus position alone three times to stop the army from attacking his tribe. However, one can never reverse the cause and following karma. The prince born of a maiden was so furious that he eventually destroyed his homeland. Maudgalyāyana (one of the Buddha’s closest disciples), who is said to have had supernatural abilities that surpassed the other disciples, could not bear to see the slaughter of innocent people. Thus, he saved five hundred people of his tribe with a pātra (an eating utensil of Buddhist monks). Unfortunately, everything he did was in vain, those who were saved eventually turned into a puddle of blood. The Buddha said that the supernatural abilities cannot surpass the power of karma. The cause and effect work all the time. When Maudgalyāyana’s mother fell into the path of hungry ghost, he used his supernatural abilities to save his mother from hunger. However, all the food turned into fire before being fed to his mother. Later, the Buddha commanded the monks to put nectar and dishes in a basin on the 15th day of the seventh month in the lunar calendar for the monks from all directions to free his mother from reincarnation. In later times, the Ullambana Dharma Service, the Compassionate Samadhi Water Repentance, and the Yoga Collection for Feeding the Searing Mouths Dharma Service are rituals to eliminate karmic hindrance and to cease to worldly delusions. Through such practices, one can free the dead as well as confess their repentance.

Madou Daitian Temple is a magnificent and colorful temple in Tainan. Not only can the worshippers visit the eighteen levels of Hell but also the Heaven (it was built in 1979 and inaugurated in 1983) here. The lighting and sound effects are stunning and frightening. When walking alone in the space, one may feel like taking a Guan Luo Yin trip (a Taoist necromancy which leads people’s spirits to hell and communicate with the dead ones) to visit the underworld prison. Before arriving the first court of the underworld, the visitor will walk through the Mountain of Heart Summit, the Pure Heart Pond, the Frontier between the Living and the Dead Realms, the Soul Registry Hall, the Portico of Demons, the Center for Complementary Teaching of Canonical Books, the Citadel of Premature Death, and the Bridge of Vanity. When one arrives at the first court, they will see King Chin-guang, who is in charge of the court, using the Mirror of Retribution to show the earthly form of evil creatures and also witness the sub-hell of Pillar-Holding and Fire Bed, etc. At the second court, King Chu-jiang collates the register of sins the souls of the dead have committed to impose the punishments. Here, you will see the sub-hell of Excrement and Urine, Hungry Ghost, Burning Dance Floor, Ice, Pus and Blood, Whipping, Tongue-Raking, Sword Blade, Stomach-Piercing, Chopping, etc. Next, the dead at the third court, ruled by King Song-di, will receive the punishments including inversion tortures, face-skinning with steel and copper knife, eye-wrenching, pounding, blood-sucking, rib-piercing, roasting, tendon-taking, being eaten by maggots. The visitor can pay a visit to the Palace of Soul-Resuscitation for the Four Forms of Creatures (birth from an egg, birth from a womb, birth from moisture, and birth by transformation). King Wu-guan is in charge of the fourth court. There are sixteen sub-hells at the fourth court including Waist Chop, Tongue Removal, Boiling Pond, Mouth-stabbing, Skin-peeling, Sword Tree, Burning Wheels and Cart, Eye-shooting, etc. Next, at the fifth court, sinful souls are allowed to ascend the Tower of Hometown-Viewing to take a final look of their family. The visitor will witness sub-hells of Knee-striking, Heart-slicing, Blade Mountain, Flying Swords and Burning Stones, etc. The King of Bian City takes charge of the sixth court, which is also known as the “Great Hell of Screaming,” with sub-hells including Fire Cattle, Tiger-Biting, Kidney-Eating, Mouth-Poking, Throat-Nailing, Iron Mill, Decapitation, etc. The King of Tai-shan is in charge of the seventh court, the “Great Hell of Heat and Fire.” The sixteen sub-hells at this court include Finger-Searing, Bowel-Hauling, Stone-Bearing, Boiling Oil, Tongue-Removal and Cheek-Piercing, etc. Next, the King Du-shi is in charge of the eighth court, the “Great Hell of Intense Fire and Heat,” and the sub-hells including Fire Dogs, Molten Iron, Iron Snakes, Dismemberment, Steel Spikes, Burning-Marrow, Iron Ball, Scale, etc. The ninth court is ruled by the King Ping-deng. It is known as the biggest court, Avici Hell (the Hell of Incessant Suffering), which if the lowest level of the hell realm and the interior is gloomily and terrifyingly dark. Those who committed the most serious evil deed will be sent to the Avici Hell. Sub-hells such as Poisonous Snake, Brain-Removal, Crow-Gnawing, Raining Needles, Wasps and Scorpions are included at this court. After arriving the tenth court, ruled by the Great King of the Reincarnation Palace, one can visit the “Observatory of Life on earth” and the “eight bureaus of the Reincarnation Palace” (including the Bureau of Judicial Control, the Bureau of Good-Actions, the Bureau of Bad-Actions, the Bureau of Debts, Gratitude, and Vengeance, the Bureau of Longevity and Destiny, the Bureau of Familial Ties, the Bureau of the Reincarnated, and the Bureau of Birth). The sinful one will be sent to the Pavilion of Mengpo and made to drink the Soup of Forgetfulness to forget all past affairs. According to the sinful one’s merits of previous life, they will go across one of the six bridges (gold, silver, jade, stone, wood, bamboo) to the “Reincarnation-Wheel (Wheel on the Crimson River).” Finally, one is able to reborn in the six realms. According to the Aṣṭadaśa nāraka sutra ( the Eighteen Hells Sutra), after one passes away, they will enter an intermediate and transitional state between death and rebirth, known as antarābhava in Sanskrit, for forty-nine days. The being will be evaluated by Yama, who will decide if one should get reborn or get punished at the hell. Those who committed the Five Grave Offenses (killing one’s father, killing one’s mother, killing an Arhat, shedding the blood of a Buddha, and creating a schism within the community of Buddhist monks and nun who practice for attaining enlightenment.) will be sent to the Avici Hell and stay there eternally. Kṣitigarbha is the Lord of the Nether World, ruling the ten court of Hell. The lord will set up the “Hall of Teaching” at each court to salvage those sinful ones who still obtain few merits at the offering rituals.

Human beings live the Sahā world (sahāloka in Sanskrit, meaning “endurance of suffering,” a concept of mundane world in Mahāyāna Buddhism) where they share with other reincarnations (including beings of the hells, of the preta, and of malevolent nature spirits) with five turbidities (the Kalpa turbidity, the view turbidity, the affliction turbidity, the living beings turbidity, and the life turbidity). Those who commit the ten evil deeds (killing, stealing, adultery, lying, using immoral language, slandering, equivocating, coveting, anger, and false views) must fall into the three evil paths (animals, preta, and hell). However, how can one escape from the three realms/ twenty-eight heavens (including the six heavens of the desire realm, the eighteen heavens of the form realm, and the four heavens of the formless realm)? Worldly people who don’t have such an awareness cannot leave the cycle of the twelve nidanas (meaning causes or motivations), let alone eliminate the eighty-one afflictions (that have been produced due to misunderstanding regarding reality) and the eighty-eight illusions (including five afflictions of advanced practitioners, also known as five views: view of self, extreme view, evil view, view of attachment to views, and view of morality; and five unintelligent temptations: desire, anger, stupidity, arrogance, and doubt) of thought within the three realms and four Arya satyas (noble truths, including suffering, arising, ending, and path). They cannot realize that the essence of the five skandhas (referring to aggregates of clinging, including the matter of form, sensation, recognition, mental formation, and consciousness) , the twelve ayatana (meaning sense base, including six internal bases: eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind and six external bases: visible objects, sound, odor, taste, touch, and mental objects), and the eighteen dhātavah (meaning compositional elements of human existence, including six consciousness, six faculties, and their objects) are the emptiness and the void. Furthermore, they cannot dispel the two reasons for clinging to the idea of the self and the attachment to elemental constructs and even believe in the two (false) tenets that that karma and nirvana are not real and that the ego and phenomena are real. As a consequence, they fail to develop the eleven wholesome mental factors (faith, energy, conscience, being ashamed, non-attachment, non-aggression, non-delusion, calmness, equanimity, conscientiousness, and non-injuriousness) and cease the sixteen unwholesome mental factors (desire, greed, anger, delusion, arrogance, doubt, wrong view, wrath, enmity, hypocrisy, vexation, jealousy, parsimony, deceit, flattery, harming, ambitiousness, stupidity, lacking of faith, idleness, being unrestrained, forgetting, distraction, non-discernment, ). One must bear in mind that once all our virtuous roots are discontinued, they will be trapped in the never-ending reincarnation and the suffering of infinite continuity.
Is it possible that the hell will be empty one day? If the beings in hell will become extinct while evil spirits inhabit the mundane world, the world could be considered as a pure land. If we could witness the nature of the void, then hell will exist no more.
Since ancient times, the concept of hell has been widely spread among all tribes. Aging, death, beginning, and end are the basis of nature and the core of cosmic consciousness. However, the prosperous civilization as our island is not a place where desire can be eliminated. It’s impossible to eradicate evil nature. Since fetters brought by the constitution, the state, the law, society, the military, corporations, schools, families, and groups are not less than the eighteen levels of hell, the mortals repress themselves, bury their feelings. Day after day, greed, anger, stupidity, arrogance, doubt, and resentment are stacking. However, since the six dust (visible objects, sound, odor, taste, touch, and mental objects) has not yet been extinguished, people in the mundane world are still full of delusions. The demons, devils, evil spirits, and the wondering dead exist in the wilderness, while only advanced practitioners with transcendent would attempt to make contact with the dead in the wasteland and forest. Worldly people like us trespass in Disneyland-like man-made hell. It is absurd and ridiculous that the hellish scenes cannot stop us from perpetrating evil deeds, but the horrific and cruel scenes yet satisfy our self-righteous shame.

The pandemic has been boiling over for more than a year and a half. The number of infected patients worldwide is nearly a hundred and eighty million, and the death toll has risen to four million, which is equivalent to a war crisis. I hope that we can all be compassionate, give peace to the dead, treat all sentient beings well and equally. The hell is innately empty; however, deluded and misleading thoughts would give rise to all jealousy and hatred and then manifest the hell before us. This book merely serves as a memorandum of conscience for dictators of the world’s new cold war, supporters of unrestrained warfare, dark web hackers, and those who are cunning and contemptuous and maltreat others when knowing they have problems.

June 2021,

Yao Jui-chung

"橫尾先生你傾向於在你的遊戲中有個悲傷的結局（除了《尼爾 自動人形》），這是為什麼呢？

橫尾：我想啊，玩家在遊戲中的旅程中殺了那麼多的敵人，但自己卻迎來了一個Happy Ending，這很奇怪，所以我之前遊戲的主角都有著不幸的結局，我覺得對他們來說有個Happy Ending是不對的。

不過對《尼爾 自動人形》來說，對2B和9S來說，從被給予生命，他們殺了很多人，但也被自己殺了很多，很多次，有著無數次的輪迴。我認為這已經把他們殺死敵人的罪給贖了，幸福結局對他們兩個來說更合適一些。"

【尼爾：自動人形】是好遊戲，2B很可愛～

Talking To Yoko Taro, PlatinumGames' Takahisa Taura, And Composer Keiichi Okabe About Life, Death, And Opportunity

This interview with《Nier: Automata》director Yoko Taro and PlatinumGames' designer Takahisa Taura was first conducted in March of this year. Square Enix then offered gameinformer another chance to talk with Taro again, this time with Keiichi Okabe to speak more about the game's creation, music, and design philosophies and we are taking this opportunity to combine both until-now unpublished interviews together.

At the start of the first interview, Taro Yoko, whose pen name is appropriately Yoko Taro, was surprisingly quiet. He took a gulp from a bottle of Diet Pepsi and looked me straight in the eye to say something. I myself looked to the translator, who laughed at whatever Yoko said. She began "Yoko-san wants you to write about how expensive the food and drinks are here, if you can. He says it's way too much."

[The following interview contains some spoilers for Nier: Automata, including the game's final ending.]

With Nier: Automata, you guys won a Game Developer Conference award. How do you feel about that?

Yoko: We heard it was a user's choice award where the players themselves select the winners, so I'm just really happy that the players have selected our game for winning the award.

How did PlatinumGames and Yoko-san first meet on Nier? Why did you decide on that project versus something like another Drakengard or a new IP as a whole?

Taura: I loved the previous Nier title, I was actually went to Square Enix saying "Please let us create a Nier sequel, because you haven't done anything with it for a long time." At the same time, there was coincidentally Saito-san, the producer for Nier: Automata, talking with Yoko-san that they wanted to do something together. It just so happened that it was the right time, right place and we met for the first time when we started this project.

When you started working on the Automata, did you know what it was going to be? Did you have an idea in your head of what a Nier sequel would look like after the first game?

Yoko: Not at all, I had no ideas for a sequel in mind. When I first heard that we might do a collaboration with PlatinumGames, the image I had of them is that they only create Sci-Fi action games. When I thought of that, I thought of what part of the Nier storyline might fit in with that Sci-Fi action gaming sequence, I selected the themes for Automata because I felt it just fits in with the PlatinumGames style.

PlatinumGames has a reputation for fast, often-challenging action games, but Nier: Automata is a lot easier. Was that intentional to keep it closer to the first Nier or perhaps a consequence of trying to make PlatinumGames action more mainstream?

Taura: That's actually exactly the reason why. Saito-san from Square Enix told us when the project started that, since the original Nier has a lot of female fans and a lot of non-action gamer fans, to make the game as fun and accessible as possible to people who aren't accustomed to playing difficult action games. We always thought of making the game into something that's fun to play for newcomers to the action game field, but also to the more experienced players as well.

One of the usual tropes of PlatinumGames is that, as the game goes on, it tends to escalate more and more to an explosive finale. Nier: Automata kind of messes with that formula a little bit by Ending A being a little bit more subdued and low-key and then goes up again and again until it finishes with endings D and E. Is that something you had to work with Yoko-san about, where the escalation and pacing would best fit the gameplay?

Taura: In terms of like a climax or increasing the difficulty level toward the end, it's not that different from our other titles, or at least we didn't feel like it was that different. The one major difference was that this was the first game that I've at least worked that had the leveling up element in it. So as long as you level up your character, the boss would be easier to defeat, but if you don't, then some of the enemies toward the end of the game would be very difficult. For me, the balancing between the difficulty level of stages and bosses versus the levels the player might be was the difficult part in creating this game.

One thing that we really had it easy with in this game is that Yoko-san's scenario and Okabe-san's music, once it's mixed into the battle, makes a really menial and indifferent battle sequence suddenly becomes this dramatic and grandiose battle with everything at stake, so I felt like that really helped elevate our battle sequences as well. We did have an easy time thanks to that!

With Automata, you started appearing at press conferences and as part of the marketing of the game, whereas previously you never did that. When you appear in public, you have been wearing a mask of Emil from the first Nier title. Why Emil specifically?

Yoko: Hmm. One of the answers I can give is that, and I do have a little more that I want to elaborate on, is that for one Emil in the previous title is just a strong character on its own, so it's more like an iconic image or character for Nier as a series. Another part of the answer is that Emil actually holds a great secret of the part of the Nier world and it's not all revealed with the games I've created so far. I'm not sure if I'll have an opportunity to disclose that secret, but if I do, I might one day create a game that delves more into why it's Emil and why I continue to wear Emil's mask.

I don't know if either of you can speak to this, but the trailers for Nier: Automata were a little misleading. They showed A2, who you play as late in the game, but with short hair, so she looked like 2B. Was that something you decided, to show those scenes but not make it clear who it was?

Yoko: There were trailers like that?

There was one specifically showing A2 fighting Hegel like that.

Yoko: Ahh, yeah. There's no reason! We weren't trying to hide A2 or mislead anyone, it just happened to work out that way.

Taura: We made so many trailers at some point we kind of didn't care what we showed.

Oh, wow, that's going to shock a lot of fans in the Nier community. People really believed in the theory that you were hiding A2 in plain sight the marketing.

Yoko: Haha, but it might not be the correct answer. Like Taura-san said, we made so many trailers that we can't remember them all, so I'm definitely happy to take the credit without remembering why.

Taura: Yeah, let's say we intentionally did that. For the fans. It might be true.

Yoko: But I can say, in one of the trailers is A2 fighting one of the Engels, one of the big robots. She actually has long hair in the trailer, but in the actual game, it's after she cut her, so she would have had shorter hair. That one was actually intentional, because we did not reveal before the game that A2 would cut her hair, so we actually made a scene specifically with long-haired A2 to take that trailer. So that's that shot was kind of a lie.

In the Automata DLC, the CEO of Square Enix Yosuke Matsuda, as well as PlatinumGames boss Kenichi Sato, are boss fights. Where did that idea come from and how did you get them to approve it? How did they react when you asked them?

Yoko: Haha, oh yeah.

Taura: The development team went to Square Enix and said "Please let us use him in our game!" Their reaction was initially saying "Uhm, are you sure you want to?"

We were thinking for a while of what we could do with the DLC, because we didn't have a lot of time to develop it, so we wanted to do something fun with it. When we were thinking about it, we saw that Final Fantasy XV used a character model of president Matsuda in one of their marketing assets. When Yoko-san saw that, he reached out and asked if maybe we could use that in the game at Platinum. We said that, if we get the character models, we could definitely use them for something in the game. We reached out to Square Enix and they gave us the model and we were able to use that character model for a boss fight.

If it was just that you were able to fight the CEO of Square Enix, then it would have just been the same as what Final Fantasy XV did, so we had to think of ways to spice that up even more. So we had PlatinumGames' CEO Sato-san appear in the fight as well. We also included background music that arranged their voices, we included their voices in the music, just to add a little bit more and beat out Final Fantasy XV. That BGM track is Matsuda-san and Sato-san's debut single. We didn't even get permission from them, so it's an unofficial debut single, and those are much rarer.

Speaking of crossovers, did you know that Nier fans have been trying get Katsuhiro Harada of Bandai Namco to put 2B in Tekken? Is that something you guys would want to do? [Note: This interview was conducted before 2B was announced as a Soulcalibur guest character.]

Yoko: For us, if we were asked, we would gladly say yes to anything for money. We're open to any kind of opportunities for anything, ever. Even if it's Candy Crush, if they want to use 2B, we will say yes, please go ahead and use her.

Actually, speaking of doing anything for money, you've never created a direct story sequel before, they've all been loosely tied together and many years apart. Saito-san has already said there will be another Nier game, if the characters are popular enough, would you create a direct sequel to Automata or would you change the characters and location again?

Yoko: I haven't thought about it once! Taura-san, where would you want to create a new game?

Taura: Actually, when I brought my concept document to Square Enix about a Nier sequel, I wanted to write a story about that prologue portion in the first Nier game. You know the beginning of the game, where you're kind of in Tokyo, in an area that's more modern? I kind of want to delve into that storyline a little bit more. So if I'm allowed to create a new Nier title, that's what I want to create. But that's just me speaking as a fan of the series, so I don't think that will actually happen officially.

Yoko: When I actually heard about that idea from Taura-san when we first started this project, I felt that it would be very difficult to make a modern recreation of Tokyo because it's the city that we constantly see every day. You just notice differences in the lies that we put in there, so I felt it would be very difficult to do to recreate a city that we know and see so much. But now that I know that PlatinumGames is such a good studio that they most likely will have that power and talent to be able to create that kind of video game world, I think that might be an option. Whether or not we'll do that is a different question, but it is a viable option.

One of the things you said before the release of Drakengard 3 was that you wanted to call it Drakengard 4 and just let people figure out what the theoretical Drakengard 3 was supposed to be. That's similar to what you did with Automata where the game takes place 10,000 years after Nier and people who played the first game were more confused than new players. Was that an intentional idea or something you've wanted to do for a while?

Yoko: It's not that I brought over that idea to Nier: Automata, the greatest reasoning why I did this is because I wanted players who haven't played the original title to enjoy Nier: Automata so you can enjoy the game without knowing anything about the previous game. That's the biggest reason why we took a storyline that's so far in the future that it really didn't have anything to do with the previous title.

A common through-line for Yoko-san's games is flowers: the lunar tear in the Nier series, the flower in Zero's eye in Drakengard 3, is that symbolizing anything in your games or is it just visual imagery you like?

Yoko: Well, I do like flowers in general, but yes, there is a greater meaning to it that I have with these flowers. It's the same as Emil like I talked about earlier, I just haven't revealed it anywhere. There is a meaning, which is why they keep on coming back in my games, but I haven't revealed it anywhere yet.

With the last Nier game, you had said that you built the game on the concept of people being okay with murdering people who are different. With Nier: Automata, the games actually became more fun to play and control and touch, do you think there's a danger in giving people that sense of ease in killing enemies in the narrative?

Yoko: In the previous title, I actually feel like I overdid that a bit. I did want to portray that enemies have a reason to live and a reason to fight on their own as well, but I feel like I forced that idea that I had in my mind a little bit too much on the players. So for Nier: Automata, I did not want to focus on it, I didn't want to impose my feelings and thoughts. I actually feel that it's fine if some people feel it's fun to kill in our games. If that's all that they feel from the game, then it's fine, because its their freedom to feel what they want from the game. To answer your question, I think that it's fine to have that happen.

Taura: I actually have the same answer, too. I feel like if it's fun to fight, that's great as a game designer. But if you feel bad to kill these cute little robots, that's fine with me as well. I feel like different people will have different reactions to the game and they will feel differently when they play the game, so I'm actually happy to create a game that creates those kind of differences within the players as well.

Yoko: That's a really good question for us, because if players felt that it was way too fun to kill these enemies that it started making them feel guilty, that's something we didn't really aim to do. Just as we mentioned earlier, I'm really happy that players were able to take it on their own and experience it on their own, then we didn't just provide something for people to take it as-is on face value. I feel like it's great that the players are now taking the game and experiencing it on their own and trying to figure things out on their own.

There was a time after 2B was revealed that people were asking you about her design on Twitter and you answered that you just like sexy ladies. That quote has become pretty famous and attached to you and a lot of people are reading into it. Is that a thing you still believe, would you ever take the quote back, or would you have ever changed 2B's design?

Yoko: [laughs] Don't straight men like cute girls? Isn't that common knowledge? I didn't realize that was a quote.

A lot of people use you as an example as a developer that just says what is on their mind.

Yoko: Before we released the game, on Twitter, because so many people were sending me 2B fan art, I said that "Send me a zip file of all your erotic fan art!" When I tweeted that out, my number of Twitter followers jump from 20,000 to 60,000 just with that one Tweet. I actually think it's because I did something that's more of a taboo in the western world where I talked about sexuality or gender that openly on Twitter, but that's actually...so, I do know that what I said did not just creative positive buzz and there's some negative buzz around it as well, but I feel like it kind of has to do with the Japanese culture where we're not too strict about gender and sexuality and being more open about talking about those things.

I think it's the same thing as reading manga as an adult, it's a little bit different when you think about it because in Japan that's more common, it's not considered something weird or something outlandish. With that kind of feedback that I get from fans, I just feel like it's the difference in culture between Japan and the rest of the world.

That is something you tend to tackle fairly often. Drakengard 3 was partly about sex and sexuality treated casually within the game's universe, is that something you feel doesn't translate across all regions?

Yoko: I actually don't think [translating across regions] has a lot to do with sexuality. I don't think it would have sold more copies of Drakengard 3 if I took away aspects of sexuality or added more in there. I feel that Nier: Automata sold well because we worked with PlatinumGames, so I don't think that has anything to do with a sexual nature.

For the original Nier, there was a lot of information on the periphery of the game like books with background information and short stories that answer questions raised in the game. Automata even had a stage play predating the game. Do you think it's harder for western fans to grasp the whole stories of these games when there's Japanese-exclusive media about it expanding the lore?

Yoko: Of course we can't localize everything because we have limitations in budget, so it's really difficult to do all of that, but I actually think there really isn't a need to know everything, either. The meaning I have behind Emil's mask or the flowers you asked about, like I said it's not revealed in the game at all or anywhere else yet, but no one really needs to know that to enjoy the game or enjoy the world or enjoy the game. More than gaining knowledge, I want players to cherish the experience they have when playing the game. It's more about that instead of the knowledge they could have for every question. Of course the theatrical stage play was more of like a YoRHa spinoff, but you don't need to know that to enjoy the game. Every piece, like the books and the stage play, is made in a way so that you can enjoy it by yourself, so you don't need that extra knowledge to enjoy it.

It may add a little bit depth to the knowledge that you have, but you don't necessarily need to have it. I do understand the otaku mentality that you want to know everything, you want to have everything answered, you want to collect everything, but I don't see the value in knowing everything. For example, just in real life, you might not know everything about the politics that surrounds the world or even in your own country, and there's really no point in knowing everything that happens in the world. Maybe a lot things, but not everything, right? What's more important is how you interact with people around you, immediately around you, and I think that's the same with video games. You don't really need to know everything that happens in the world to enjoy it.

Of course I do respect the freedom that the players feel as well, so if you do get mad that we can't localize everything in America, or America never gets everything, that's also something to be respected and I do understand the frustrations surrounding that as well.

When Nier: Automata released, it did so in a three-month timeframe that several other big Japanese games came out in the U.S., like The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild and Yakuza 0. A lot of people started heralding those games as a return of Japanese development in the west. What do you think about going from fairly niche games to what some people consider the tip of the spear of modern Japanese development?

Yoko: First and foremost, just to speak about having so many good titles in that timeframe, my thought was "Are you people trying to kill me with this?!" In Japan, Horizon came out first, then it was Nier, then Zelda, and I think in the west, it was Horizon, Zelda, then Nier in North America. So we're literally sandwiched between those two with a two-week window in between each and they were all very similar to us in the futuristic setting. Especially for Zelda, it was one of the titles we copied in the first place, so I really felt like they were trying to kill us at the time.

Personally, not even thinking about Nier: Automata during that time frame, I was running around excited about all the fun-looking games coming as a gamer myself.

Hideki Kamiya [PlatinumGames] has once said that Nier: Automata saved Platinum. Is that something you agree with and how has the relationship been between PlatinumGames and Square Enix?

Yoko: Speaking from my perspective, of course Taura-san will likely know more about it internally at PlatinumGames...Kamiya-san, he's very laid back on Twitter, but when you actually really talk to him, he's a very serious person and very sincere. I guess Nier: Automata did generate sales for them, because I received a direct letter of gratitude from him saying "Thank you very much for creating a great game." I don't even know if we saved them or not in that sense, but just receiving that kind of message from was just very heartwarming and I was just really happy that I was able to provide such a game for them.

Taura: You could make the headline of your article "Yoko Taro Saved PlatinumGames" and that's definitely true.

Yoko: It's a very true headline.

Why do both of you think that Nier: Automata was more successful than Yoko-san's previous games or most other PlatinumGames titles?

Taura: Mainly because PlatinumGames' sensibilities were much better than Yoko Taro's.

Yoko: I actually think it's the Square Enix brand, the name Square Enix gives a more reliable feeling to an otaku type of title. PlatinumGames' strong name being known for making really good action games and I think the combination of the two really helped. This time with Nier: Automata, we sold about 2.5 million copies and the previous title we sold around 500,000. For the last game, we weren't really in the red, but it wasn't exactly a success either. We have these passionate fans that really supported the time from announcement and the series as a whole. Of course for Automata, too, we had a very passionate fan base including the media and including yourself that gave impressions and articles that helped make the game into a success, so I'm just really grateful for the fans and media alike that really supported the title and were passionate about it.

[The remainder of this interview took place a few weeks later with Taro Yoko and Nier: Automata composer Keiichi Okabe. Okabe is also known for his work on both Nier titles, Drakengard 3, Tekken, and contributing some tracks to Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. Before we started recording, Yoko said it will be okay if I asked Okabe most of the questions and I remarked that I wouldn’t want to make him jealous. He paused for a moment and then said it doesn’t matter because he would get paid either way.]

You two have been working together for a long time, I was curious how much the music composition is tied in with the writing. One of the city themes in Nier: Automata uses similar composition to a track in Nier. Does that come from the writing or the musical identity of the series?

Okabe: Since Yoko-san is I feel the type of person that doesn't want to do the same thing over and over again, even if he did receive praise for what he did previously, I kept that in mind while I was composing music for Nier: Automata. I also wanted to have some kind of connection that you would feel as a player between the previous title and this one, so I used similar tones from previous titles or from the previous game. It might not be exactly the same, but I used some similar types of music lines from the previous title so that you might feel that kind of connection.

But we do have tracks that are arrangements of previous tracks from older titles, but that was mostly for fan service.

I kind of wanted to drill down a little bit this time and get to the core of your philosophy of why and how you make games. If you had to pick a reason to hold up and say "This is why I make video games," what would that be?

Yoko: I feel that video games, amongst all the different entertainment mediums, have the most freedom in what you can do as a creator. For example, in a film, if you are able to control movement, then that's no longer a film in my eyes. In video games, you could have film-like cutscenes and videos, you could have them going on forever as much as you would like as a creator. That kind of freedom to do that is what I really wanted to do and I feel like video games are what provide me that option, even if I never do it.

Is there any kind of message you use games for that you want to convey to your audience or anything you want them to hear from you? Or do you prefer to let them take whatever interpretation they get from your games?

Yoko: It's the latter. I would want our players to freely interpret what I've created just on their own, to grasp something for their own. I feel that's one of the interesting aspects of video games is that you are able to freely interpret what's being shown to you. I also feel like the players make the game whole by playing it. The action of playing the game I feel has meaning in itself and because of that I want the players to find something from the game, feel something from the game, for themselves.

Nier: Automata won a number of awards, Okabe-san you won best music at The Game Awards, Automata won the audience award at GDC. Is there any pressure to appeal a more mainstream audience with your next game?

Okabe: For a popular title that will be played by many, it doesn't really matter what kind of genre you put out musically. I will still be interested to compose music for those if possible. I would have to take a different approaches to those kind of mainline titles, whereas for Nier, I felt that the music can be more geared toward a core audience where only those who would understand the music would play it. But at the same time, once you understand, I want you to be deeply affected by it. That's what I aim for with Nier. If I am to work on a way more mainstream title next time, I will have to change that mindset I have as a composer, but that would be something I'd like to challenge myself more. To answer your question, yes, I'd like to try that, but I'd also do whatever kind of jobs I'm assigned to.

Yoko: For me, my games I actually think are really niche. How Nier: Automata was so successful was actually just a coincidence. To make a successful game is something that I can't really aim to do, so I think that I'll probably return to my small and dark corner, my niche corner, with my successive titles.

Who would you both consider your inspirations for writing and composing?

Okabe: For me, it's obviously more of a composer than a writer, but I don't really focus on one person. I tend to just try to get music here and there and have a wide net. I am greatly affected by people who I've listened to in my youth, like Japanese composer Ryuchi Sakamoto, Ennio Morricone who creates film music, and also pop music like Michael Jackson and Madonna. I am affected by those as well.

Yoko: I have received inspiration from a lot of things, but I think personally expressions in film or any like visual production is something I'm deeply affected by. For example, Neon Genesis Evangelion by Hideaki Anno, that was really a strong influence on me. Also, the drama series 24, the way that they incorporate speedy and complicated constructions of storylines was something that was very new at the time. Just throughout the timeline of visual production, I think there's a sudden burst of evolution, and I think that "that" moment in a title that does that just greatly affects me and becomes an inspiration for me. But I feel that can be said for the rest of the world.

Lately, anything that Christopher Nolan creates I think is very intriguing where he tries to include deep knowledge and thoughtfulness into what he creates. I'm very interested in this new wave of evolution.

Last year, with the release of Animal Crossing on mobile, you talked on social media about how it was your favorite game of the year because you created a narrative where the characters were all unwillingly imprisoned in the camp. Do you often create your own narratives for games?

Yoko: I do that for some games and I don't for others. Off and on, I guess. It's a lot easier to create my own storyline per se for a more primitive game. For example, in Zelda: Wind Waker, you start off with a grandma and your sister living on an island and it's really happy and joyful and there's really no reason for Link to get out of there and fight Ganondorf because you're already living happily. You don't need to get out of that happiness. As a gamer, I felt the kind of sadness to have to leave that happy island life.

In Dragon Quest [V], you have to choose who you want to wed, and I felt that I couldn't really get into liking either of the characters. I also couldn't find the point of having to decide who I want to marry, so I just at that instant I turned off the game and said "My journey ends here!" My mind narrated "The three of them went on the journey and lived happily ever after, the end." That was my ending for Dragon Quest V.

Around the release of Drakengard 3, you spoke about how it's not possible in this industry to make a six-minute game and sell it for $60, no matter how good those six minutes are. Is this something you still think?

Yoko: That analogy was given to explain that, no matter how much you try to make a game really good, there's a limit to what you can do. If you are to create a six-minute game, because you can't go through a lot of different stages, you would have to create one stage. Which means that you could really refine the quality of that one stage without having to put in a lot of money into it and a lot of manpower into it. Also, because it's only six minutes, you can't really have too many characters in it, so you could focus on one or two characters at max. By doing that, you could refine the quality of those two characters. But because you're time-limited, no matter how much you refine the quality of the world around you or the characters, if you're limited to six minutes there's just so much you could do that the game won't become good at all. That was an example for me to say that there's a limit to what you can do in video games.

Okabe-san, in the music for a lot of Yoko-san's game, you use constructed or uncommon languages, is there a specific reason for that?

Okabe: [laughs] Yeah, for one, because it is Nier: Automata, Replicant, and Gestalt, they all take place in a unique world, even though they're in the timeline of our current world, it's so much in the future that it should feel kind of foreign. That's one of the reasons why I went for language we can't understand, but another is that, in games in the past, game directors actually got mad at many occasions for including vocals into the soundtrack. They were saying that it would become too distracting from the gameplay and would distract the player. It was considered more of a taboo, so for Nier, I included vocals in there without a language you could understand more for the sound that you get from the words. It wasn't to convey any meaning of what was being said, but more for a sound impact.

Yoko-san, you tend to have very sad endings in your games, with the exception of Nier: Automata which is as happy an ending as you can get with most characters dying. Why do you tend to write toward more sad endings and do you feel like Automata's happy ending fit the game better?

Yoko: The reason why I created endings that end on a death is because, until now I was creating games where you would kill a lot of enemies, but I've always felt that it doesn't feel right when the protagonist has a happy after they've killed so many enemies during the course of their journey. That's why in Replicant and Gestalt, or my previous titles, the protagonist pretty much ended up dying because I didn't feel like it was right for them to have a happy ending. But for Nier: Automata, 2B and 9S, from the time that they were given life, they've been killing a lot of enemies, but they've also been killed by them many, many times, and regenerated many times. They've actually been killing each other, which you find out at the very end, many, many times as well. So I felt that kind of cleansed them of their sins for killing so many enemies, which made me feel that a happy ending was more fitting for those two.

Do you feel like that cycle of violence and death and the consequences of that are human nature?

Yoko: I think the reasons why we kill in video games do kind of shine light on what's kind of broken within humanity or humans in general. We want peace in the world, but we also enjoy killing others in video games, like shooting guns in video games. I think that's karma in a sense for humans, the way that video games grasp the true essence of humanity, whether or not that's what they were aiming to do.

Is there a series that you know, like Persona or Yakuza or anything like that, that either of you would want to work on?

Yoko: A series or anything?

It can be anything.

Yoko: Personally, it's not a Japanese title. I'd actually love to see how western titles are developed, because I have no insight into how they're made. There was a moment in time where I felt that it might be fun join a western development to see how things run. Of course there's the language barrier that would make it difficult for me to do that, but generally speaking I feel that western storytelling follows kind of a similar route for all the stories that western mediums create. I would feel it fascinating to find out why western games use certain flows and storyline arcs.

Okabe: I'm kind of a fanboy myself, so there is a part of me that wants to work on major titles like Dragon Quest. I feel that if I do work on those titles, the pressure of working such a known title would be just too big and because there is a part of me that really loves that series, I feel like I would try to skew my music in a way that would fit into that series instead of trying to create music that I think is good. I don't feel like I would be able to bring out the best quality in my music if I worked on those big titles, because of that pressure and because of the image I have of those titles in my mind. Currently, my want to work on those major titles and the part of me that's telling me I shouldn't do it are about equal.

Were either of you surprised by Nier: Automata's success?

Yoko: [in English] Oh yes.

Okabe: For me, I live in Tokyo and developer PlatinumGames live in Osaka, so we did have quite a distance in-between, like literal physical distance between us. From the moment that I created the music to when I was able to see it next, there was a big gap in time, so when I was able to my music in the game for the first time, the game was pretty close to finished, they were almost done with development. At that moment, I thought "Maybe this one might sell?" But at the same time, I didn't think it would become this big of a success, I always thought it might do better than the previous titles, but it was like a hunch that I didn't feel until this time in Yoko-san's titles. I did have some kind of a gut feeling that it might do well.

The last song of Automata, Weight of the World, had a chorus with the entire game's development staff at PlatinumGames and Square Enix singing along to encourage the player. Why did you decide on that for the final song of the game?

Okabe: I didn't remember this, I actually forgot about it for a while, but Yoko-san actually came to me telling me that he wanted a chorus at the end of the game pretty early on in the development process. I apparently made disgruntled face at him and did not remember why I even made that face or even that I made that face. After a while, I actually remember why I had such a reaction with the disgruntled face, because there's a couple of different types of choirs, but Yoko-san likes the more classical choir, so when he requested that he wanted a choir, I thought he wanted that classical type of choir at the last part of the game. At that moment, I thought "Well, that doesn't really fit in with the game plan, I don't really want to do that," which is why I had that expression on my face. After we talked about it, Yoko-san mentioned that wasn't really what he was going for, he said that because that last scene is all about all these different people helping you, he wanted everyone to sing, he wanted it to feel like everyone is singing there with you as you play.

When I thought about doing that, and I actually agreed that might be a good idea, because in Nier: Automata all the choir vocals that you hear in the game, it's actually recorded by a small group of singers, I just overlapped their voice so it sounds like a big choir. Because that last part of the game is more about you playing amongst a lot of people, I felt that taking that approach again of overlapping voices again would not really work. So I reached out to the dev teams because they were working on that part and I thought it would be a good idea to have them put themselves in the game as well. I also thought that they don't need to have a good voice, it's just to give that feeling that you're playing with all these developers.

Development teams from Square Enix, PlatinumGames, and also some composers from my company who didn't work on Nier: Automata are singing in it as well. There's also children of PlatinumGames developers and their family actually singing in it as well. That was the reasoning behind why we decided to do that at the end.

Has there ever been, in all your games you've made, an idea you had that you had to be talked out of?

Yoko: For the first Drakengard, I had an idea of [Japanese pop-star] Ayumi Hamasaki, like her character model, wearing all-silver spandex, like a giant version of her descending from the sky and you would fight against her by music. Everyone else on the staff shut it down. It does still leave that kind of music game essence kind of in there, but the part Ayumi Hamasaki comes out in silver spandex has been taken out.

Isn't that kind of similar to Drakengard 3's actual ending?

Yoko: Similar, but I actually wanted to go for something funny, or shockingly stupid. But no one would let me.

Source：
https://www.gameinformer.com/…/talking-to-yoko-taro-platinu…